1 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:17,900 [Music] 2 00:00:24,740 --> 00:00:22,170 I met dr. von Braun in person by chance 3 00:00:28,819 --> 00:00:24,750 I was downtown that the old rustlers can 4 00:00:31,490 --> 00:00:28,829 hotel this was back in 1962 in the late 5 00:00:33,829 --> 00:00:31,500 winter or early spring of 62 I was 6 00:00:36,229 --> 00:00:33,839 teaching school I'd come to to 7 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:36,239 Huntsville to teach math and science at 8 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:38,610 Madison Academy and I was just down to 9 00:00:43,759 --> 00:00:40,489 get a haircut and this was before 10 00:00:45,410 --> 00:00:43,769 Research Park existed and all the growth 11 00:00:47,719 --> 00:00:45,420 that's taking place it was a small town 12 00:00:50,509 --> 00:00:47,729 then and it's typical of southern towns 13 00:00:53,030 --> 00:00:50,519 there's always a barber shop in the 14 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:53,040 hotel that was always close to the to 15 00:00:56,420 --> 00:00:54,930 the courthouse square and I was just 16 00:00:59,119 --> 00:00:56,430 saying getting a haircut on a Saturday 17 00:01:01,399 --> 00:00:59,129 morning and he walked in with his hat 18 00:01:03,170 --> 00:01:01,409 his briefcase and the barber shop was 19 00:01:06,260 --> 00:01:03,180 just about full there was a lot to talk 20 00:01:09,770 --> 00:01:06,270 about what price of cotton and Alabama 21 00:01:11,570 --> 00:01:09,780 football prospects and all that so there 22 00:01:14,030 --> 00:01:11,580 weren't many empty seats and he came in 23 00:01:17,060 --> 00:01:14,040 and happy to sit down next to me and of 24 00:01:19,130 --> 00:01:17,070 course I was in all of him but I didn't 25 00:01:22,790 --> 00:01:19,140 he did not know me from anybody 26 00:01:24,980 --> 00:01:22,800 so I its my ordinary practice I don't 27 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:24,990 when I see somebody I think of as a 28 00:01:29,210 --> 00:01:26,850 celebrity I don't bother to give them 29 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:29,220 their privacy and after a while he 30 00:01:34,220 --> 00:01:32,010 finished what he was doing and put the 31 00:01:36,620 --> 00:01:34,230 papers back in his briefcase and he 32 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:36,630 turned and smiled and he had one of 33 00:01:40,970 --> 00:01:38,490 those smiles that just light up a room 34 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:40,980 and spoke to me and said well what are 35 00:01:44,660 --> 00:01:42,450 you doing and I told him that I was 36 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:44,670 teaching school and he said something in 37 00:01:48,590 --> 00:01:46,050 fact well that's wonderful when these 38 00:01:52,370 --> 00:01:48,600 school teachers what do you teach and I 39 00:01:54,620 --> 00:01:52,380 said math and science is it Oh Oh what 40 00:01:58,010 --> 00:01:54,630 is your background what is your degree 41 00:02:00,110 --> 00:01:58,020 and I could remember I just graduated 42 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:00,120 the preceding spring and I still had a 43 00:02:05,180 --> 00:02:03,210 double major in math and physics and he 44 00:02:08,180 --> 00:02:05,190 said oh that's what I majored in 45 00:02:10,850 --> 00:02:08,190 some math and physics what what classes 46 00:02:13,640 --> 00:02:10,860 did you take and I mean he went through 47 00:02:15,500 --> 00:02:13,650 every class I could remember and they 48 00:02:17,780 --> 00:02:15,510 wanted to know what it covered and he 49 00:02:19,580 --> 00:02:17,790 wanted to know what great I'd pay and at 50 00:02:21,170 --> 00:02:19,590 the end he asked if I and 51 00:02:23,330 --> 00:02:21,180 interesting working in the space program 52 00:02:26,780 --> 00:02:23,340 of course the space program had just 53 00:02:28,309 --> 00:02:26,790 begun shortly before that and I told him 54 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:28,319 that I was fascinated with but I'd not 55 00:02:32,150 --> 00:02:30,090 thought about working at it frankly I 56 00:02:35,420 --> 00:02:32,160 didn't feel qualified because I didn't 57 00:02:37,610 --> 00:02:35,430 go to MIT or Caltech or any of the 58 00:02:39,740 --> 00:02:37,620 big-name engineering schools I went to 59 00:02:41,750 --> 00:02:39,750 University of Central Missouri and which 60 00:02:44,869 --> 00:02:41,760 really had its origins as Teachers 61 00:02:47,030 --> 00:02:44,879 College so I didn't feel qualified but 62 00:02:47,630 --> 00:02:47,040 he said well if you ever changed your 63 00:02:49,789 --> 00:02:47,640 mind 64 00:02:53,270 --> 00:02:49,799 talk to personnel and tell them that 65 00:02:54,650 --> 00:02:53,280 you're not talked on this day and I said 66 00:02:57,699 --> 00:02:54,660 I thought there was a place for you at 67 00:03:00,020 --> 00:02:57,709 Marshall and so that's what I did and 68 00:03:03,170 --> 00:03:00,030 they set me up with a series of 69 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:03,180 interviews and and a map how to get to 70 00:03:07,789 --> 00:03:05,250 each one of the offices the first one I 71 00:03:10,670 --> 00:03:07,799 went to was that I talked to a gentleman 72 00:03:13,130 --> 00:03:10,680 named Helmut Bauer who was a 73 00:03:14,630 --> 00:03:13,140 second-generation German and he 74 00:03:16,819 --> 00:03:14,640 explained to me what they were doing 75 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:16,829 what he was working on and it was 76 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:19,890 absolutely fascinating to me and at the 77 00:03:25,849 --> 00:03:22,410 end of that we he pulled into the 78 00:03:28,610 --> 00:03:25,859 dynamic test facility he explained that 79 00:03:32,509 --> 00:03:28,620 the that they had lost a large number of 80 00:03:34,550 --> 00:03:32,519 the a4 rockets which became the z2 but 81 00:03:37,220 --> 00:03:34,560 it was deployed a4 when it was being 82 00:03:40,099 --> 00:03:37,230 developed because they didn't understand 83 00:03:42,620 --> 00:03:40,109 the relation between controlling the 84 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:42,630 vehicle and the bending of the vehicle 85 00:03:47,690 --> 00:03:44,970 which is they look rigid but they're not 86 00:03:50,659 --> 00:03:47,700 actually rigid they're flexible enough 87 00:03:53,089 --> 00:03:50,669 to wear our sensor picks up a little bit 88 00:03:55,099 --> 00:03:53,099 of bending it interprets that as an 89 00:03:56,539 --> 00:03:55,109 error and tries to correct it and if 90 00:03:59,599 --> 00:03:56,549 they don't understand how that all works 91 00:04:01,789 --> 00:03:59,609 together the bending and excites the 92 00:04:04,809 --> 00:04:01,799 propellant slosh and propellant slosh 93 00:04:07,879 --> 00:04:04,819 excites the bending and it could go very 94 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:07,889 you start with the vehicle oscillating 95 00:04:12,500 --> 00:04:11,010 pretty soon it is a major oscillation 96 00:04:15,050 --> 00:04:12,510 either goes out of control or breaks 97 00:04:17,029 --> 00:04:15,060 apart and they lost a large number of 98 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:17,039 those vehicles till they understood that 99 00:04:21,020 --> 00:04:18,930 and there were a lot of people have 100 00:04:24,350 --> 00:04:21,030 thought the biggest technical issue to 101 00:04:26,330 --> 00:04:24,360 building the Saturn 5 this little a4 102 00:04:29,029 --> 00:04:26,340 only had about 50,000 pounds of 103 00:04:30,980 --> 00:04:29,039 propellant the Saturn 5 weighed six 104 00:04:31,420 --> 00:04:30,990 million pounds and five million pounds 105 00:04:35,230 --> 00:04:31,430 of that 106 00:04:37,750 --> 00:04:35,240 propellent it was 363 feet long so the 107 00:04:40,030 --> 00:04:37,760 bending was very significant in a 108 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:40,040 relative sense and the large tanks were 109 00:04:43,570 --> 00:04:41,690 that amount of propellant sloshing and 110 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:43,580 they were it was being controlled by 111 00:04:47,770 --> 00:04:46,370 moving four of the five f1 inches and 112 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:47,780 each one of those engines weighed 113 00:04:52,420 --> 00:04:50,690 eighteen thousand four hundred pounds so 114 00:04:54,250 --> 00:04:52,430 there was a lot of dynamics cool and a 115 00:04:56,500 --> 00:04:54,260 lot of people felt that they would have 116 00:04:59,110 --> 00:04:56,510 a very difficult time if they could ever 117 00:05:00,730 --> 00:04:59,120 get it controlled and that was his job 118 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:00,740 and that's why they built that dynamic 119 00:05:06,280 --> 00:05:03,130 test our was so that he would have the 120 00:05:08,140 --> 00:05:06,290 data on how the vehicle bent what his 121 00:05:09,820 --> 00:05:08,150 first mode second mode third mode and 122 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:09,830 they went up through I think six modes 123 00:05:15,070 --> 00:05:12,890 of the vehicle and it's subsequently 124 00:05:17,380 --> 00:05:15,080 higher frequencies and then he had 125 00:05:19,180 --> 00:05:17,390 propellant testing done all over the 126 00:05:21,840 --> 00:05:19,190 country and they were getting that so we 127 00:05:25,060 --> 00:05:21,850 had to build a mathematical model that 128 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:25,070 represented the bending and the slushing 129 00:05:30,220 --> 00:05:28,010 of the vehicle that could be used in to 130 00:05:32,860 --> 00:05:30,230 do the dynamics analysis to get the 131 00:05:35,110 --> 00:05:32,870 stability when response loads and that 132 00:05:37,630 --> 00:05:35,120 kind of thing we gave that then to the 133 00:05:39,250 --> 00:05:37,640 Astra Onix laboratory and the 134 00:05:41,650 --> 00:05:39,260 astronautics laboratory then built the 135 00:05:44,590 --> 00:05:41,660 actual flight computer to try to match 136 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:44,600 the gain and phase requirements that we 137 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:46,970 had had given them and he asked me if 138 00:05:49,990 --> 00:05:48,770 I'd like to work in that I said I can't 139 00:05:52,330 --> 00:05:50,000 imagine anything more interesting than 140 00:06:00,390 --> 00:05:52,340 this so I went to work here on July the 141 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:02,160 what he would do is he would he was 142 00:06:07,410 --> 00:06:04,090 require weekly notes from all of his 143 00:06:09,629 --> 00:06:07,420 direct reports every Friday afternoon he 144 00:06:12,030 --> 00:06:09,639 would take those home and over the 145 00:06:14,490 --> 00:06:12,040 weekend he would go through every single 146 00:06:16,409 --> 00:06:14,500 one of them and he would make annotation 147 00:06:18,390 --> 00:06:16,419 it's what he wanted done about whatever 148 00:06:21,750 --> 00:06:18,400 was being reported and he didn't want 149 00:06:23,940 --> 00:06:21,760 just report that from people saying well 150 00:06:25,500 --> 00:06:23,950 we had this meeting and like most of the 151 00:06:28,140 --> 00:06:25,510 weekly help since you see in recent 152 00:06:31,290 --> 00:06:28,150 years he wanted detailed information on 153 00:06:33,750 --> 00:06:31,300 a gyroscope that didn't work or a test 154 00:06:35,700 --> 00:06:33,760 that didn't in how they were working he 155 00:06:37,770 --> 00:06:35,710 would make his notes and on Monday 156 00:06:40,110 --> 00:06:37,780 morning he would bring those in and 157 00:06:42,450 --> 00:06:40,120 would dump those on Bonnie's desk and 158 00:06:44,909 --> 00:06:42,460 she would get the annotated note to each 159 00:06:47,460 --> 00:06:44,919 one of the cinders of what his 160 00:06:52,350 --> 00:06:47,470 instructions were how to address the 161 00:06:57,420 --> 00:06:54,809 well they wanted all the information 162 00:06:59,309 --> 00:06:57,430 that they could possibly get that they 163 00:07:02,399 --> 00:06:59,319 talked you didn't necessarily have to go 164 00:07:04,469 --> 00:07:02,409 through chain of command they wanted to 165 00:07:07,140 --> 00:07:04,479 talk to everybody that had any 166 00:07:10,290 --> 00:07:07,150 information von Braun personally he was 167 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:10,300 known to show up they were doing a lot 168 00:07:15,930 --> 00:07:11,770 of work you know they were literally 169 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:15,940 working 24/7 on various things and he 170 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:17,530 would sometimes show up in the middle of 171 00:07:22,499 --> 00:07:19,690 the night and talk to the people that 172 00:07:23,999 --> 00:07:22,509 were working on a piece of hardware it 173 00:07:25,980 --> 00:07:24,009 asking what they were doing how it was 174 00:07:27,540 --> 00:07:25,990 going but the problem for going 175 00:07:29,430 --> 00:07:27,550 completely around the chain of command 176 00:07:31,830 --> 00:07:29,440 all of them were very interested in 177 00:07:34,709 --> 00:07:31,840 getting the job done they fought and 178 00:07:36,629 --> 00:07:34,719 they argued and they disagreed violently 179 00:07:38,809 --> 00:07:36,639 but in the end they would make a 180 00:07:41,490 --> 00:07:38,819 decision and once the decision was made 181 00:07:43,860 --> 00:07:41,500 there was no further discussion of it 182 00:07:46,740 --> 00:07:43,870 once it was decided then even the people 183 00:07:49,589 --> 00:07:46,750 who didn't like it were were inclined to 184 00:07:51,809 --> 00:07:49,599 do exactly what everybody had agreed to 185 00:07:53,100 --> 00:07:51,819 and there was no you know what I told 186 00:07:56,180 --> 00:07:53,110 you you shouldn't have done none of that 187 00:07:58,469 --> 00:07:56,190 it was always a season he would listen 188 00:08:00,240 --> 00:07:58,479 all of the manager that way and find 189 00:08:03,209 --> 00:08:00,250 Braun in particular they would listen as 190 00:08:05,610 --> 00:08:03,219 long as you had date him when they 191 00:08:08,129 --> 00:08:05,620 wanted to hear all the data once the 192 00:08:09,330 --> 00:08:08,139 data ended and you started an opinion 193 00:08:11,879 --> 00:08:09,340 they were no longer interested they were 194 00:08:14,370 --> 00:08:11,889 interested in the information and once 195 00:08:15,390 --> 00:08:14,380 the decision was made then it became the 196 00:08:17,969 --> 00:08:15,400 decision and there was no 197 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:17,979 second-guessing they were a good group 198 00:08:25,110 --> 00:08:19,690 to work with I found him to be 199 00:08:30,450 --> 00:08:27,480 one of the big issues of course was was 200 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:30,460 loading what kind of loads the vehicles 201 00:08:38,220 --> 00:08:33,850 gonna say and how you represented those 202 00:08:39,810 --> 00:08:38,230 loads in the analysis bill vaanu we just 203 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:39,820 just talked with what was responsible 204 00:08:45,390 --> 00:08:42,970 for for the environment through which 205 00:08:47,870 --> 00:08:45,400 the vehicle is going to fly and they 206 00:08:52,290 --> 00:08:47,880 developed something that they called a 207 00:08:54,990 --> 00:08:52,300 synthetic profile for design purposes 208 00:08:57,510 --> 00:08:55,000 they they came up with we didn't have 209 00:08:59,670 --> 00:08:57,520 the capability in those days to fly the 210 00:09:00,540 --> 00:08:59,680 vehicle through a large database of 211 00:09:03,030 --> 00:09:00,550 winds 212 00:09:05,370 --> 00:09:03,040 we were the computational capability at 213 00:09:06,990 --> 00:09:05,380 that time was relatively slow and we 214 00:09:09,510 --> 00:09:07,000 just didn't have that game they do that 215 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:09,520 today but what he would do was analyze 216 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:12,370 all those winds and determine 217 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:15,490 percentiles of what the likelihood was 218 00:09:20,850 --> 00:09:18,730 and then they would superimpose a gust 219 00:09:23,250 --> 00:09:20,860 on it so they would start out with with 220 00:09:26,130 --> 00:09:23,260 the what that was the 95 percentile of 221 00:09:28,860 --> 00:09:26,140 the highest wind and then they would use 222 00:09:31,950 --> 00:09:28,870 a build up to that that's called the 223 00:09:35,100 --> 00:09:31,960 wind shear and they take 99% of the wind 224 00:09:37,950 --> 00:09:35,110 shear and then they would superimpose on 225 00:09:39,930 --> 00:09:37,960 that a square wave gust right at the 226 00:09:44,510 --> 00:09:39,940 worst possible time and that's what we 227 00:09:48,150 --> 00:09:44,520 designed - and we ran the with the 228 00:09:50,070 --> 00:09:48,160 analysis that we did for that was done 229 00:09:52,470 --> 00:09:50,080 in in my ear in the Aero ballistics 230 00:09:56,550 --> 00:09:52,480 laboratory we we took the data from the 231 00:09:58,890 --> 00:09:56,560 dynamic test hour we then built mode 232 00:10:00,780 --> 00:09:58,900 shapes from that what they what the 233 00:10:04,380 --> 00:10:00,790 Mende looked like determined the 234 00:10:06,450 --> 00:10:04,390 frequencies and the generalized mass did 235 00:10:10,290 --> 00:10:06,460 the same thing with the slosh and built 236 00:10:13,260 --> 00:10:10,300 all that into a of equations that we can 237 00:10:15,420 --> 00:10:13,270 then expand into what was called the 238 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:15,430 characteristic equation and we would 239 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:17,770 solve that characteristic equation and 240 00:10:21,930 --> 00:10:19,810 find where the where the roots for it 241 00:10:24,060 --> 00:10:21,940 was a new technique it's common today 242 00:10:25,820 --> 00:10:24,070 but it was new then most of the 243 00:10:28,790 --> 00:10:25,830 techniques we were doing we were 244 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:28,800 develop as we went but it's called root 245 00:10:33,410 --> 00:10:30,930 locus and we were determined where the 246 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:33,420 where the various routes were and that 247 00:10:36,890 --> 00:10:34,530 would determine whether you were in a 248 00:10:39,650 --> 00:10:36,900 range of stability and you could vary 249 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:39,660 the gains and vary the phase and with 250 00:10:44,300 --> 00:10:41,610 that you were able to determine how much 251 00:10:46,750 --> 00:10:44,310 margin you had of each and that's how we 252 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:46,760 solve that problem we also then 253 00:10:52,190 --> 00:10:50,130 calculated the loads when we had the 254 00:10:54,170 --> 00:10:52,200 Antonia over there we developed the 255 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:54,180 equations that would allow us to analyze 256 00:10:58,880 --> 00:10:56,250 what the bending moment on the vehicle 257 00:11:01,160 --> 00:10:58,890 would be at every station on it and make 258 00:11:03,860 --> 00:11:01,170 sure that the structure was capable of 259 00:11:05,420 --> 00:11:03,870 standing the bending moment so it's a 260 00:11:07,100 --> 00:11:05,430 pretty complex thing and it was took a 261 00:11:08,930 --> 00:11:07,110 lot of interaction between the 262 00:11:11,870 --> 00:11:08,940 laboratory I was in terrible istic s-- 263 00:11:15,680 --> 00:11:11,880 and the avionics lab we worked together 264 00:11:22,020 --> 00:11:15,690 to get that analysis out and we we never 265 00:11:26,700 --> 00:11:24,450 well the vehicle itself of course was 266 00:11:29,340 --> 00:11:26,710 very very large and at the time that 267 00:11:31,710 --> 00:11:29,350 that facility was built it was the 268 00:11:33,900 --> 00:11:31,720 tallest self-supporting structure in the 269 00:11:37,410 --> 00:11:33,910 state of Alabama I think there may be 270 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:37,420 one or two bank buildings in Birmingham 271 00:11:42,390 --> 00:11:39,250 that may be taller than that today but 272 00:11:45,630 --> 00:11:42,400 at that time it was about 400 feet 273 00:11:47,790 --> 00:11:45,640 higher the vehicles 363 feet and it 274 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:47,800 towered a little above that we could put 275 00:11:53,250 --> 00:11:49,930 the entire stack in there and they 276 00:11:56,190 --> 00:11:53,260 attached shakers to it and so they could 277 00:11:58,530 --> 00:11:56,200 literally vary the frequency and and 278 00:12:00,390 --> 00:11:58,540 measure what the vehicle was doing how 279 00:12:02,700 --> 00:12:00,400 it was responding that sound they would 280 00:12:06,510 --> 00:12:02,710 find where the natural frequencies of 281 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:06,520 the of the vehicle work and so when what 282 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:07,810 they were doing was putting an actual 283 00:12:13,560 --> 00:12:10,410 vehicle in and actually dynamically 284 00:12:15,750 --> 00:12:13,570 measuring what the vehicle did when it 285 00:12:18,630 --> 00:12:15,760 was shaken and they even put in 286 00:12:20,990 --> 00:12:18,640 propellant in the in the tanks and got 287 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:21,000 the combined effects of propellant slosh 288 00:12:25,710 --> 00:12:23,290 along with the vehicle's structural 289 00:12:27,900 --> 00:12:25,720 bending and that then fed into the 290 00:12:34,100 --> 00:12:27,910 equations that with ended in the 291 00:12:41,450 --> 00:12:38,840 ese 501 was they was designation we use 292 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:41,460 for the first one and that happened in 293 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:47,490 late 1967 and it was a almost flawless 294 00:12:53,269 --> 00:12:50,250 test it was amazing how perfectly 295 00:12:57,650 --> 00:12:53,279 everything performed on that the 296 00:13:02,900 --> 00:12:57,660 following April in April of 1968 we had 297 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:02,910 a different day as 502 and that was not 298 00:13:09,980 --> 00:13:05,490 the same we had many many problems with 299 00:13:12,829 --> 00:13:09,990 it that we had not anticipated and it it 300 00:13:14,530 --> 00:13:12,839 did how we fixed it and what we did with 301 00:13:18,050 --> 00:13:14,540 it to me was one of the most interesting 302 00:13:20,329 --> 00:13:18,060 experiences I had in NASA during the 303 00:13:23,060 --> 00:13:20,339 first stage they got something that is 304 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:23,070 called Pogo effect and it's like a pogo 305 00:13:25,550 --> 00:13:23,610 stick 306 00:13:27,590 --> 00:13:25,560 you know it's oscillating the thrust 307 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:27,600 builds up then it drops off and it 308 00:13:33,290 --> 00:13:29,490 shakes the vehicle much like a pogo 309 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:33,300 stick does and that had they had 310 00:13:38,810 --> 00:13:36,450 anticipated that they might have a pogo 311 00:13:40,250 --> 00:13:38,820 issue and they had made provisions to 312 00:13:43,310 --> 00:13:40,260 put in accumulators if they were 313 00:13:45,050 --> 00:13:43,320 necessary but they not did not showed up 314 00:13:47,030 --> 00:13:45,060 on the first one so they felt pretty 315 00:13:49,790 --> 00:13:47,040 good about it but they got it in a big 316 00:13:52,430 --> 00:13:49,800 way on the second one then in the second 317 00:13:56,900 --> 00:13:52,440 stage flight that was an s-1 see flight 318 00:14:00,110 --> 00:13:56,910 during s2 flight they they got a signal 319 00:14:04,430 --> 00:14:00,120 that one of the parameters that they 320 00:14:06,019 --> 00:14:04,440 monitored on one of the five engines and 321 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:06,029 crossed the red line I can't remember 322 00:14:09,769 --> 00:14:07,770 now if it was tipped here or pressure 323 00:14:11,750 --> 00:14:09,779 but one of the red lines that it 324 00:14:14,780 --> 00:14:11,760 shouldn't cross so they wanted to make 325 00:14:17,269 --> 00:14:14,790 sure that that the that the engine did 326 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:17,279 not fail catastrophically and blow up 327 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:20,490 the vehicle so they made the decision to 328 00:14:26,060 --> 00:14:23,850 shut down that engine and when they did 329 00:14:28,910 --> 00:14:26,070 that they said a command and it shut the 330 00:14:31,370 --> 00:14:28,920 engine down but as we had a backup for 331 00:14:34,460 --> 00:14:31,380 nearly everything at that time and they 332 00:14:36,829 --> 00:14:34,470 sent a second command to make sure that 333 00:14:40,069 --> 00:14:36,839 the engine was shut down unfortunately 334 00:14:43,910 --> 00:14:40,079 there was a miss wiring problem and they 335 00:14:46,310 --> 00:14:43,920 shut down the opposite engine so instead 336 00:14:47,420 --> 00:14:46,320 of having one engine out we had two 337 00:14:49,550 --> 00:14:47,430 inches out 338 00:14:51,110 --> 00:14:49,560 but it still kept going and it was 339 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:51,120 enough to think it still make it to 340 00:14:58,940 --> 00:14:56,690 orbit the third stage the because of a 341 00:15:01,220 --> 00:14:58,950 propellant line that shaken loose 342 00:15:03,860 --> 00:15:01,230 probably related to that Pogo problem 343 00:15:06,130 --> 00:15:03,870 but because of that they were unable to 344 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:06,140 do a restart ordinarily the Saturn 5 345 00:15:13,970 --> 00:15:11,370 they'd had to 5j to its engines in the 346 00:15:16,610 --> 00:15:13,980 second stage at a single j2s engine in 347 00:15:18,650 --> 00:15:16,620 the third stage the liquid hydrogen each 348 00:15:21,350 --> 00:15:18,660 and then they were identical engines 349 00:15:23,660 --> 00:15:21,360 except the one in the third stage had a 350 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:23,670 restart capability and they would burn 351 00:15:29,750 --> 00:15:26,970 these s1c stage it would fall into the 352 00:15:31,340 --> 00:15:29,760 ocean then they would burn thee as to 353 00:15:33,980 --> 00:15:31,350 stage and it would fall into the ocean 354 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:33,990 off the coast of Africa much further and 355 00:15:38,690 --> 00:15:36,450 then they would light the s4b third 356 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:38,700 stage for its first burn and it would 357 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:41,010 burn into orbit and the intent was that 358 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:43,890 she would stay in orbit until you 359 00:15:48,380 --> 00:15:45,690 checked out all the systems and had the 360 00:15:52,130 --> 00:15:48,390 proper alignment to go to the moon then 361 00:15:54,500 --> 00:15:52,140 they would restart the the j2 engine of 362 00:15:57,380 --> 00:15:54,510 the third stage and it would do the 363 00:15:59,630 --> 00:15:57,390 translunar injection burns tli that 364 00:16:01,850 --> 00:15:59,640 would send the spacecraft on its way to 365 00:16:03,740 --> 00:16:01,860 the moon and which time the Saturn had 366 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:03,750 done its job and he got him on the way 367 00:16:12,110 --> 00:16:08,970 and because of all that vibration a line 368 00:16:14,930 --> 00:16:12,120 had come loose and as a result of that 369 00:16:17,300 --> 00:16:14,940 they were not able to do a restart so 370 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:17,310 they made it to orbit but they couldn't 371 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:19,650 restart it they also had a failure of 372 00:16:26,180 --> 00:16:23,730 one of the the the slaw panels the 373 00:16:30,380 --> 00:16:26,190 service limit after panels which is that 374 00:16:33,500 --> 00:16:30,390 kind of truncated area you see above the 375 00:16:34,970 --> 00:16:33,510 when it transitions from the diameter of 376 00:16:37,010 --> 00:16:34,980 the s4b 377 00:16:41,210 --> 00:16:37,020 down to the diameter of the service 378 00:16:43,580 --> 00:16:41,220 module on the spacecraft that they that 379 00:16:46,130 --> 00:16:43,590 was a frustum of a cone and that's where 380 00:16:49,460 --> 00:16:46,140 they where they kept the the lunar 381 00:16:52,970 --> 00:16:49,470 lander was in was in there and on the 382 00:16:56,150 --> 00:16:52,980 later on the actual missions and one of 383 00:16:58,880 --> 00:16:56,160 those panels actually structurally 384 00:16:59,600 --> 00:16:58,890 failed when they had a meeting following 385 00:17:02,120 --> 00:16:59,610 that 386 00:17:05,809 --> 00:17:02,130 and here at Marshall von Braun the 387 00:17:09,049 --> 00:17:05,819 associate administrator for Space Flight 388 00:17:10,850 --> 00:17:09,059 the the head of the Apollo program in 389 00:17:13,579 --> 00:17:10,860 headquarters and all the senior managers 390 00:17:16,340 --> 00:17:13,589 here and from Houston we're all here to 391 00:17:19,250 --> 00:17:16,350 discuss where do we go from here and 392 00:17:20,809 --> 00:17:19,260 that was a very very big thing they they 393 00:17:23,150 --> 00:17:20,819 got the vehicle to orbit but it had 394 00:17:26,030 --> 00:17:23,160 nearly failed at every point along the 395 00:17:28,460 --> 00:17:26,040 way and so this this group analyzed that 396 00:17:32,090 --> 00:17:28,470 and they felt they understood it they 397 00:17:34,549 --> 00:17:32,100 the reason that they had a failure in 398 00:17:36,860 --> 00:17:34,559 the first stage that poco effect was 399 00:17:38,390 --> 00:17:36,870 they did not have the accumulators in 400 00:17:40,610 --> 00:17:38,400 that they thought they would need so 401 00:17:42,710 --> 00:17:40,620 they could put them in and take care of 402 00:17:44,539 --> 00:17:42,720 that problem the second stage or 403 00:17:48,970 --> 00:17:44,549 anything wrong with the engine they 404 00:17:50,990 --> 00:17:48,980 simply an a a sensor was bad and sent 405 00:17:53,570 --> 00:17:51,000 indication that they needed to shut it 406 00:17:55,940 --> 00:17:53,580 down and the wiring was just a Mis wired 407 00:17:58,700 --> 00:17:55,950 problem so there wasn't anything other 408 00:18:00,770 --> 00:17:58,710 than to make sure that you you always 409 00:18:02,810 --> 00:18:00,780 know that sensors can't fail and just be 410 00:18:04,789 --> 00:18:02,820 sure that that they're there thoroughly 411 00:18:07,159 --> 00:18:04,799 checked and make sure the wires right 412 00:18:09,710 --> 00:18:07,169 and that took care of that in the third 413 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:09,720 stage they they found out the reason 414 00:18:14,510 --> 00:18:12,090 that they had never encountered any kind 415 00:18:18,020 --> 00:18:14,520 of a problem with the vibration in the 416 00:18:20,510 --> 00:18:18,030 in the feed line was that when they 417 00:18:22,370 --> 00:18:20,520 tested it it was on the ground and there 418 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:22,380 was moisture and as soon as they ran the 419 00:18:28,010 --> 00:18:25,290 hydrogen fuel into the line immediately 420 00:18:30,740 --> 00:18:28,020 it was coated with ice but in space 421 00:18:33,350 --> 00:18:30,750 there was no moisture therefore there 422 00:18:35,390 --> 00:18:33,360 was no ice and so the line needed to be 423 00:18:37,340 --> 00:18:35,400 stabilized and so all they had to do was 424 00:18:39,980 --> 00:18:37,350 add some stability brackets to it and 425 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:39,990 they understood that there was actually 426 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:42,570 a design flaw in the slaw panels and 427 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:45,090 that was easy to redesign so they felt 428 00:18:50,539 --> 00:18:47,490 that they understood everything about 429 00:18:53,060 --> 00:18:50,549 what had gone wrong and they but there 430 00:18:55,370 --> 00:18:53,070 was another Apollo flight planned later 431 00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:55,380 that summer wouldn't be a Saturn 5 B of 432 00:19:01,490 --> 00:18:57,210 Saturn wouldn't be but that would give 433 00:19:04,310 --> 00:19:01,500 them the chance to to test the the s4b 434 00:19:06,860 --> 00:19:04,320 because it was a second stage of the 435 00:19:09,470 --> 00:19:06,870 Saturn 1b and it was the third stage of 436 00:19:11,659 --> 00:19:09,480 Saturn 5 so they could take it check it 437 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:11,669 then and they would be able to check 438 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:13,290 those slot panels 439 00:19:17,570 --> 00:19:15,330 make sure that was right and if they 440 00:19:19,550 --> 00:19:17,580 didn't find anything there and in the 441 00:19:21,410 --> 00:19:19,560 subsequent test didn't find anything 442 00:19:25,460 --> 00:19:21,420 they decided that they could fly the 443 00:19:27,020 --> 00:19:25,470 next one as a manned flight and that was 444 00:19:28,460 --> 00:19:27,030 important because it was costing a lot 445 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:28,470 of money 446 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:31,170 even in those days it was they were 447 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:33,690 disputes about Pattie count the money 448 00:19:37,430 --> 00:19:35,490 just like on the shuttle no one would 449 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:37,440 ever agree exactly what a shuttle cost 450 00:19:42,860 --> 00:19:39,570 but it was a hundred to three hundred 451 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:42,870 million dollars and that was in 1960s 452 00:19:46,550 --> 00:19:45,210 top dollars and so that would be you 453 00:19:49,130 --> 00:19:46,560 know probably over a billion dollars 454 00:19:51,350 --> 00:19:49,140 today's cost and so they didn't want to 455 00:19:53,330 --> 00:19:51,360 make any additional flights if they 456 00:19:55,730 --> 00:19:53,340 didn't have to and they made the 457 00:19:57,920 --> 00:19:55,740 decision that they understood all the 458 00:20:00,710 --> 00:19:57,930 problems and the problems had all been 459 00:20:01,430 --> 00:20:00,720 if they were all and say with further 460 00:20:03,770 --> 00:20:01,440 testing 461 00:20:05,450 --> 00:20:03,780 they'd confirmed what they decided that 462 00:20:09,020 --> 00:20:05,460 there was no reason that they couldn't 463 00:20:11,660 --> 00:20:09,030 fly the next one manned and that became 464 00:20:12,860 --> 00:20:11,670 the third Saturn five flight and we know 465 00:20:15,290 --> 00:20:12,870 it as Apollo eight 466 00:20:20,120 --> 00:20:15,300 I'd say Apollo eight in many ways was my 467 00:20:23,780 --> 00:20:20,130 favorite of all of the missions 1968 was 468 00:20:26,090 --> 00:20:23,790 a very traumatic year in in this country 469 00:20:31,340 --> 00:20:26,100 it's hard to overstate how traumatic it 470 00:20:34,850 --> 00:20:31,350 was in April Martin Luther King dr. King 471 00:20:36,890 --> 00:20:34,860 was assassinated in Memphis and there 472 00:20:39,710 --> 00:20:36,900 were riots in the streets following that 473 00:20:43,820 --> 00:20:39,720 it was a very difficult time it was a 474 00:20:46,220 --> 00:20:43,830 very difficult president Johnson decided 475 00:20:48,890 --> 00:20:46,230 not to seek another term and there was a 476 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:48,900 lot of competition for who was going to 477 00:20:53,420 --> 00:20:51,690 be the Democratic candidate Robert F 478 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:53,430 Kennedy looked like he was surging into 479 00:21:01,310 --> 00:20:56,250 the lead and in June he was assassinated 480 00:21:03,710 --> 00:21:01,320 in Los Angeles at a hotel after he had 481 00:21:05,420 --> 00:21:03,720 had a very successful day and it looked 482 00:21:09,020 --> 00:21:05,430 like he was going to be the the 483 00:21:11,300 --> 00:21:09,030 candidate he was shot there and and died 484 00:21:13,370 --> 00:21:11,310 the net early the next morning and so it 485 00:21:15,970 --> 00:21:13,380 had those two terrible things happened 486 00:21:18,980 --> 00:21:15,980 and then in July the Democrats had their 487 00:21:23,420 --> 00:21:18,990 there a convention that year in Chicago 488 00:21:24,970 --> 00:21:23,430 and there was massive protest and Mayor 489 00:21:29,180 --> 00:21:24,980 Daley 490 00:21:32,030 --> 00:21:29,190 he basically I would characterize his 491 00:21:34,789 --> 00:21:32,040 response has been almost brutal he had 492 00:21:36,610 --> 00:21:34,799 police on horses with nightsticks and 493 00:21:39,500 --> 00:21:36,620 they were literally beating people 494 00:21:41,900 --> 00:21:39,510 severely beating them and that was going 495 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:41,910 on outside the convention when they were 496 00:21:47,180 --> 00:21:44,730 doing the nominating process so that was 497 00:21:49,220 --> 00:21:47,190 a that was a very ugly scene and all of 498 00:21:52,340 --> 00:21:49,230 these things had made this a very 499 00:21:55,669 --> 00:21:52,350 dramatic and traumatic year about 500 00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:55,679 September NASA management and that was 501 00:21:59,720 --> 00:21:57,450 well above my pay grade senior 502 00:22:02,110 --> 00:21:59,730 management learned that the Russians 503 00:22:05,539 --> 00:22:02,120 were planning to do a circumnavigation 504 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:05,549 flight around circumlunar flight and go 505 00:22:14,090 --> 00:22:08,210 around the moon well they had beat us 506 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:14,100 two into space with their Sputnik then 507 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:16,290 they later the next one that carried up 508 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:19,530 a little dog Lakha who only lived a few 509 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:23,970 hours and then your gig Erin had become 510 00:22:32,870 --> 00:22:28,970 the first person for the first human to 511 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:32,880 go into orbit and he had done that ahead 512 00:22:39,799 --> 00:22:34,290 of us he had done that I believe in 513 00:22:41,570 --> 00:22:39,809 April of 1961 and so it was a you know 514 00:22:43,669 --> 00:22:41,580 they had beat us to the punch every time 515 00:22:45,350 --> 00:22:43,679 and I think there was a pretty strong 516 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:45,360 feeling that they were not gonna beat us 517 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:47,250 to the moon that's the whole reason the 518 00:22:51,950 --> 00:22:49,530 lunar program was started was to show 519 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:51,960 that we could start out from behind and 520 00:22:57,799 --> 00:22:55,410 capitalism was superior to communism and 521 00:22:59,810 --> 00:22:57,809 then we catch up and go ahead and we 522 00:23:02,840 --> 00:22:59,820 were not about to let him do that so the 523 00:23:06,110 --> 00:23:02,850 courageous decision was made to launch 524 00:23:09,230 --> 00:23:06,120 the Apollo 8 that would would be a man 525 00:23:12,020 --> 00:23:09,240 flight a circumlunar flight and that was 526 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:12,030 that made it very very dramatic and you 527 00:23:18,110 --> 00:23:14,490 just couldn't make this stuff up they 528 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:18,120 arrived in lunar orbit December the 24th 529 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:23,010 of 1968 which was a you know to arrive 530 00:23:30,070 --> 00:23:26,730 on Christmas Eve and that night they 531 00:23:33,470 --> 00:23:30,080 literally took turned and they read the 532 00:23:35,390 --> 00:23:33,480 first 10 verses of the book of Genesis 533 00:23:38,299 --> 00:23:35,400 in the beginning and 534 00:23:41,630 --> 00:23:38,309 explain the biblical account of how 535 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:41,640 creation took took place and they took 536 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:44,490 turns reading that no one protested 537 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:46,410 except well there was one well-known aja 538 00:23:51,740 --> 00:23:49,650 so that day Madalyn Murray O'Hair and 539 00:23:55,549 --> 00:23:51,750 she protested but in general there was 540 00:23:57,860 --> 00:23:55,559 no outcry that flight was a just exactly 541 00:24:01,250 --> 00:23:57,870 the lift that the country needed at that 542 00:24:03,110 --> 00:24:01,260 time after it ended the year on such a 543 00:24:06,530 --> 00:24:03,120 positive note when it had been such a 544 00:24:08,660 --> 00:24:06,540 negative year up until then and of 545 00:24:10,190 --> 00:24:08,670 course it was an important thing for not 546 00:24:12,260 --> 00:24:10,200 only demonstrates that it would work 547 00:24:15,380 --> 00:24:12,270 that we can do that they couldn't land 548 00:24:17,120 --> 00:24:15,390 but they they were went into orbit and 549 00:24:19,580 --> 00:24:17,130 they maneuvered and they saw two sites 550 00:24:22,570 --> 00:24:19,590 that no human eyes had ever seen before 551 00:24:25,610 --> 00:24:22,580 they saw the backside of the moon and 552 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:25,620 that had never been seen before we'd 553 00:24:29,690 --> 00:24:28,170 seen pictures of it from satellites but 554 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:29,700 no one had actually seen it because the 555 00:24:34,190 --> 00:24:31,650 moon as you know is gravity gradient 556 00:24:36,110 --> 00:24:34,200 stabilized which means it's he keeps the 557 00:24:39,500 --> 00:24:36,120 same orientation toward the earth all 558 00:24:42,530 --> 00:24:39,510 the time whether it's regardless of the 559 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:42,540 phase that's in whether it's bright or 560 00:24:47,930 --> 00:24:45,090 whether it's dark the same face always 561 00:24:50,210 --> 00:24:47,940 is toward the earth and no one had ever 562 00:24:51,890 --> 00:24:50,220 seen the backside of it except pictures 563 00:24:54,650 --> 00:24:51,900 of it well they actually saw the 564 00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:54,660 backside of the moon and maybe even more 565 00:25:01,610 --> 00:24:57,530 dramatic than that when they came around 566 00:25:02,360 --> 00:25:01,620 they saw something that no human eye had 567 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:02,370 ever seen 568 00:25:07,669 --> 00:25:04,050 I guess no one even given much thought 569 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:07,679 to it but they saw Earth's rise and they 570 00:25:12,169 --> 00:25:10,170 they were all taking pictures of it but 571 00:25:14,660 --> 00:25:12,179 the picture I think that Jim Lovell take 572 00:25:17,419 --> 00:25:14,670 took was the one that actually they 573 00:25:20,049 --> 00:25:17,429 teased each other and appearances about 574 00:25:23,060 --> 00:25:20,059 who it was that actually took the 575 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:23,070 picture that everyone has seen it was 576 00:25:26,870 --> 00:25:25,050 actually Jim Lovell but the hell each of 577 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:26,880 them claims that they did it it's all in 578 00:25:30,740 --> 00:25:28,770 good natured fun they all understand and 579 00:25:33,010 --> 00:25:30,750 accept that lovell's picture did it 580 00:25:35,390 --> 00:25:33,020 that's the most popular picture in 581 00:25:38,090 --> 00:25:35,400 NASA's history and one of the most 582 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:38,100 popular ever it's absolutely beautiful 583 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:41,730 and they I think that Frank Borman and 584 00:25:46,549 --> 00:25:44,730 Lovell and Anders on that flight they 585 00:25:49,190 --> 00:25:46,559 saw the earth 586 00:25:51,769 --> 00:25:49,200 in a different way than anyone ever had 587 00:25:55,340 --> 00:25:51,779 before and I think they were were quite 588 00:25:57,019 --> 00:25:55,350 moved by how fragile everything looked I 589 00:25:59,029 --> 00:25:57,029 think a lot of people believe that was 590 00:26:01,999 --> 00:25:59,039 sort of the start of the environmental 591 00:26:04,460 --> 00:26:02,009 movement he saw how fragile it was he 592 00:26:06,830 --> 00:26:04,470 talked about the good earth and and it 593 00:26:09,409 --> 00:26:06,840 was it was very moving now for me 594 00:26:13,759 --> 00:26:09,419 personally that was a and especially 595 00:26:18,799 --> 00:26:13,769 neat thing I'm married in August of that 596 00:26:22,039 --> 00:26:18,809 year of August in 1968 and so I was 30 597 00:26:25,730 --> 00:26:22,049 and my young bride was 20 and we went to 598 00:26:27,799 --> 00:26:25,740 her home in Kansas City and sitting with 599 00:26:30,710 --> 00:26:27,809 all the family together watching on 600 00:26:33,279 --> 00:26:30,720 television when Apollo 8 when that whole 601 00:26:39,830 --> 00:26:33,289 that took place so it had a particular 602 00:26:44,750 --> 00:26:42,320 it was a small city when I came here I 603 00:26:47,420 --> 00:26:44,760 think at that point it was up to about 604 00:26:51,770 --> 00:26:47,430 30,000 people or so it had been like 605 00:26:53,360 --> 00:26:51,780 10,000 when Redstone Arsenal was 606 00:26:55,550 --> 00:26:53,370 reactivated Redstone Arsenal and 607 00:26:56,570 --> 00:26:55,560 Huntsville Arsenal both existed during 608 00:26:58,640 --> 00:26:56,580 World War two 609 00:27:03,190 --> 00:26:58,650 both were closed at the end of the war 610 00:27:08,420 --> 00:27:03,200 there was a big push to get the 611 00:27:11,450 --> 00:27:08,430 something to replace them in our economy 612 00:27:13,970 --> 00:27:11,460 the Germans had deployed a a jet fighter 613 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:13,980 at the end of the war it came in too 614 00:27:18,710 --> 00:27:17,010 late to to really do anything it can 615 00:27:21,350 --> 00:27:18,720 only stop for a little while and and 616 00:27:24,500 --> 00:27:21,360 wasn't especially maneuverable but it 617 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:24,510 entered it showed that the next aircraft 618 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:28,650 propulsion was going to be the jet jet 619 00:27:33,470 --> 00:27:31,530 propulsion and they wanted the nation 620 00:27:37,390 --> 00:27:33,480 needed a large tunnel so that they could 621 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:37,400 test full-size jet fighters in it and 622 00:27:42,650 --> 00:27:40,050 there was a lot of competition Alabama 623 00:27:43,730 --> 00:27:42,660 was competing for it and Tennessee was 624 00:27:46,370 --> 00:27:43,740 competing for it 625 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:46,380 and in those days this was it was a 626 00:27:51,980 --> 00:27:48,450 solid Democratic South this was before 627 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:51,990 the civil rights movement in 1950 and 628 00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:54,450 this was solid Democratic territory in 629 00:27:59,270 --> 00:27:56,970 those days all the senators stayed as 630 00:28:00,680 --> 00:27:59,280 long as they wanted to stay they they 631 00:28:02,570 --> 00:28:00,690 basically was considered almost 632 00:28:05,690 --> 00:28:02,580 unpatriotic to run against them in the 633 00:28:07,130 --> 00:28:05,700 primary and the other party didn't 634 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:07,140 bother to run against him in the fall 635 00:28:11,690 --> 00:28:09,450 because it wouldn't it wasn't worth the 636 00:28:13,550 --> 00:28:11,700 effort there they couldn't win and so we 637 00:28:15,830 --> 00:28:13,560 had senator Sparkman could have been in 638 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:15,840 for a long time very powerful Georgia 639 00:28:23,330 --> 00:28:21,330 had sinister Griffin and they he stayed 640 00:28:27,950 --> 00:28:23,340 in for a very very long time 641 00:28:30,470 --> 00:28:27,960 Tennessee had Estes Kefauver and Al Gore 642 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:30,480 senior they had powerful senator Stennis 643 00:28:36,470 --> 00:28:33,890 had our Mississippi had senator Stennis 644 00:28:39,170 --> 00:28:36,480 Louisiana had senator DeLong and all 645 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:39,180 these people would stay 20 30 years and 646 00:28:42,980 --> 00:28:41,730 they had control of all the money then 647 00:28:45,170 --> 00:28:42,990 controlled every committee there 648 00:28:46,700 --> 00:28:45,180 controlled everything and so they kind 649 00:28:48,190 --> 00:28:46,710 of worked it out among themselves 650 00:28:50,830 --> 00:28:48,200 well Tennessee and Alabama 651 00:28:53,649 --> 00:28:50,840 were competing to get that wind tunnel 652 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:53,659 and in the end Tennessee got it 653 00:28:59,049 --> 00:28:56,330 so as somewhat as a consolation prize 654 00:29:01,779 --> 00:28:59,059 they had already kind of wanted to get 655 00:29:03,730 --> 00:29:01,789 all the missile work together they they 656 00:29:06,490 --> 00:29:03,740 brought this group that had come over 657 00:29:08,980 --> 00:29:06,500 under Operation Paperclip they were out 658 00:29:11,500 --> 00:29:08,990 in white sands and then we had other 659 00:29:13,330 --> 00:29:11,510 missile war going in other places they 660 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:13,340 looked at the facility here at Redstone 661 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:17,090 Arsenal had almost 60 square miles it 662 00:29:22,690 --> 00:29:19,610 had the river for good transportation it 663 00:29:24,759 --> 00:29:22,700 had rail it was a good climate there 664 00:29:26,710 --> 00:29:24,769 were a lot of things going for it and in 665 00:29:30,070 --> 00:29:26,720 the end we got that as a consolation 666 00:29:32,649 --> 00:29:30,080 prize tella homeowner was about 10,000 667 00:29:35,500 --> 00:29:32,659 to 15,000 people when they got the wind 668 00:29:39,310 --> 00:29:35,510 tunnel it's 10 to 15 thousand people 669 00:29:41,649 --> 00:29:39,320 today houseful when we got that was 670 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:41,659 about ten thousand people today its 671 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:43,370 approaching two hundred thousand people 672 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:46,610 and in the next census we'll probably be 673 00:29:51,730 --> 00:29:49,730 the second largest and when census after 674 00:29:54,519 --> 00:29:51,740 that partner to be the largest city in 675 00:30:01,830 --> 00:29:54,529 Alabama so enough the consolation prize 676 00:30:09,279 --> 00:30:06,580 my work on Apollo on Saturn 5 had been 677 00:30:11,799 --> 00:30:09,289 with respect to the design the dynamic 678 00:30:12,310 --> 00:30:11,809 stability the wind loads that kind of 679 00:30:14,980 --> 00:30:12,320 thing 680 00:30:18,009 --> 00:30:14,990 I had no operational role in it at all 681 00:30:21,039 --> 00:30:18,019 and dr. von Braun was very very good to 682 00:30:23,620 --> 00:30:21,049 make sure that people who had worked on 683 00:30:26,649 --> 00:30:23,630 the Saturn 5 that were not involved with 684 00:30:29,110 --> 00:30:26,659 its operation had the opportunity to see 685 00:30:33,070 --> 00:30:29,120 history made so he he made it possible 686 00:30:36,159 --> 00:30:33,080 for us all to to go down and to and to 687 00:30:41,230 --> 00:30:36,169 see it so I was able to when I when I 688 00:30:44,830 --> 00:30:41,240 married in August of 68 my office that I 689 00:30:48,340 --> 00:30:44,840 was working with they they gave me a the 690 00:30:50,799 --> 00:30:48,350 newest technology super 8 movie camera 691 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:50,809 projector screen and all that and of 692 00:30:54,970 --> 00:30:52,850 course super 8 was an improvement over 693 00:30:57,940 --> 00:30:54,980 eight millimeter or six sixteen 694 00:31:00,279 --> 00:30:57,950 millimeter but it was not like videos 695 00:31:03,159 --> 00:31:00,289 today that are digital it was still film 696 00:31:05,409 --> 00:31:03,169 but I had that and we took it down and 697 00:31:07,539 --> 00:31:05,419 pinion I went to that went to that 698 00:31:09,610 --> 00:31:07,549 launch and we were we were about as 699 00:31:12,580 --> 00:31:09,620 close to about three and a half miles we 700 00:31:15,460 --> 00:31:12,590 were just north of the VAB and had a 701 00:31:17,860 --> 00:31:15,470 perfect clear unrestricted view of the 702 00:31:21,129 --> 00:31:17,870 launch and I took my oh I still have my 703 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:21,139 own pictures I took of it but the Saturn 704 00:31:25,180 --> 00:31:22,850 5 looks about that I didn't have 705 00:31:27,700 --> 00:31:25,190 telescopic lens but I do have my own 706 00:31:30,820 --> 00:31:27,710 recording of the of a launch of it and 707 00:31:33,490 --> 00:31:30,830 it was absolutely just beautiful Nicky 708 00:31:34,659 --> 00:31:33,500 the excitement of all the people that 709 00:31:36,310 --> 00:31:34,669 were that don't know how many people 710 00:31:38,950 --> 00:31:36,320 there I think there were several hundred 711 00:31:42,610 --> 00:31:38,960 thousand people who watched it in person 712 00:31:45,100 --> 00:31:42,620 and there was really wall-to-wall people 713 00:31:46,899 --> 00:31:45,110 and it was just exciting to be a part of 714 00:31:50,470 --> 00:31:46,909 it and we made it back times fall in 715 00:31:55,529 --> 00:31:50,480 time to be in our family room and we had 716 00:32:00,730 --> 00:31:55,539 a new house that we had moved into and 717 00:32:04,210 --> 00:32:00,740 we were able to to see the Senate our in 718 00:32:07,899 --> 00:32:04,220 our den and watch those ghostly pictures 719 00:32:11,250 --> 00:32:07,909 from the when they first stepped on the 720 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:11,260 moon and so it was it was just a very 721 00:32:17,790 --> 00:32:14,530 tastic thing for me so I was I was able 722 00:32:19,890 --> 00:32:17,800 to in effect it was like we've been 723 00:32:22,910 --> 00:32:19,900 married less than a year so it was sort 724 00:32:25,830 --> 00:32:22,920 of a second honeymoon for us it was a 725 00:32:29,100 --> 00:32:25,840 wonderful time and I have incredible 726 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:29,110 memories of what that was what that was 727 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:31,090 like and of course the mission the idea 728 00:32:36,270 --> 00:32:33,850 of people actually landing on the moon 729 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:36,280 they're they're skeptics today who'd 730 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:37,690 question that we did it but that's 731 00:32:42,870 --> 00:32:40,210 ridiculous I mean our satellites could 732 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:42,880 even take pictures of the what's of the 733 00:32:47,940 --> 00:32:45,130 where we touched down and say the 734 00:32:50,660 --> 00:32:47,950 landing stage which the landing stage on 735 00:32:54,270 --> 00:32:50,670 the Apollo was used as the launch stage 736 00:32:56,130 --> 00:32:54,280 to get to go back up and so well that 737 00:32:58,230 --> 00:32:56,140 first stage is still on the moon and you 738 00:33:00,030 --> 00:32:58,240 can still see right where it was and 739 00:33:01,860 --> 00:33:00,040 it's just ridiculous but there are 740 00:33:04,590 --> 00:33:01,870 skeptics that even today think we didn't 741 00:33:09,690 --> 00:33:04,600 that we didn't go but that was a fun 742 00:33:16,859 --> 00:33:12,989 first of all I don't think anyone at 743 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:16,869 that time you could never got a bet that 744 00:33:21,779 --> 00:33:18,730 we wouldn't have gone on to Mars in the 745 00:33:25,739 --> 00:33:21,789 next 50 years that we would go to the 746 00:33:28,409 --> 00:33:25,749 moon we would land six times twelve 747 00:33:32,009 --> 00:33:28,419 people would walk on the moon and it 748 00:33:34,710 --> 00:33:32,019 would it would all end in in just a 749 00:33:37,590 --> 00:33:34,720 couple of years and that we would never 750 00:33:40,109 --> 00:33:37,600 go back we in fact we didn't people that 751 00:33:41,759 --> 00:33:40,119 kind of lost interested begin to we were 752 00:33:44,249 --> 00:33:41,769 so successful it almost looked for a 753 00:33:48,060 --> 00:33:44,259 team and they decided we've been very 754 00:33:50,729 --> 00:33:48,070 lucky we've had a lot of close calls but 755 00:33:53,369 --> 00:33:50,739 we've been lucky why take a chance on 756 00:33:57,330 --> 00:33:53,379 having a disaster so the flight hardware 757 00:34:02,009 --> 00:33:57,340 for Apollo 18 was built but it didn't 758 00:34:05,310 --> 00:34:02,019 fly we have the actual rover vehicle is 759 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:05,320 out is that the in the Space and Rocket 760 00:34:09,919 --> 00:34:07,450 Center here that's not a test vehicle 761 00:34:15,780 --> 00:34:09,929 that was going to be the hardware on 762 00:34:17,970 --> 00:34:15,790 Apollo 18 and the actual saturn v launch 763 00:34:20,430 --> 00:34:17,980 vehicle is the one that is down at the 764 00:34:24,859 --> 00:34:20,440 Johnson Space Center that you can see 765 00:34:27,899 --> 00:34:24,869 the one we have out here the is is the 766 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:27,909 dynamic that's what was in the dynamic 767 00:34:33,930 --> 00:34:30,970 test our is is what we have here and the 768 00:34:37,289 --> 00:34:33,940 propulsion test articles are what they 769 00:34:38,909 --> 00:34:37,299 have at the Kennedy Space Center but 770 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:38,919 they all look the difference between 771 00:34:43,139 --> 00:34:40,450 that the flight hardware you can't tell 772 00:34:44,549 --> 00:34:43,149 the difference but it's it's interesting 773 00:34:47,430 --> 00:34:44,559 to see that and of course then we have 774 00:34:49,169 --> 00:34:47,440 the high fidelity mock-up it's not a 775 00:34:51,270 --> 00:34:49,179 real vehicle but it looks so much like 776 00:34:53,669 --> 00:34:51,280 it you couldn't tell that it's not 777 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:53,679 vertical so this is the only spot alert 778 00:34:59,579 --> 00:34:56,290 that you can go see they want a Saturn 5 779 00:35:02,250 --> 00:34:59,589 looked like vertical but the fact that 780 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:02,260 we did not go forward I think would be 781 00:35:06,690 --> 00:35:06,130 the biggest disappointment in the Apollo 782 00:35:09,839 --> 00:35:06,700 program 783 00:35:12,030 --> 00:35:09,849 I think everyone expected that the next 784 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:12,040 step will be Mars and we had at that 785 00:35:16,799 --> 00:35:14,770 time we had a National Space Council 786 00:35:18,380 --> 00:35:16,809 chaired by the vice president as it is 787 00:35:21,490 --> 00:35:18,390 today and 788 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:21,500 at that time it was Spiro Agnew and 789 00:35:27,140 --> 00:35:24,450 Nixon was the president and they were 790 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:27,150 they were prepared to go forward and 791 00:35:32,630 --> 00:35:29,970 when they asked how long it would take 792 00:35:35,420 --> 00:35:32,640 they envision this being something that 793 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:35,430 would happen during Nixon's second term 794 00:35:41,300 --> 00:35:37,890 when they found that we could not go to 795 00:35:44,180 --> 00:35:41,310 Mars that quickly then they lost 796 00:35:46,130 --> 00:35:44,190 interested and so and that's that was 797 00:35:47,830 --> 00:35:46,140 gotten the end of that program and we 798 00:35:54,240 --> 00:35:47,840 have not been back to the moon and 799 00:36:02,220 --> 00:35:58,500 and I think that a lot of people without 800 00:36:04,589 --> 00:36:02,230 anybody say that our putting landing men 801 00:36:08,730 --> 00:36:04,599 on the moon was the greatest achievement 802 00:36:11,430 --> 00:36:08,740 of the 20th century and of course it's 803 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:11,440 not hard to convince me of that we knew 804 00:36:15,390 --> 00:36:13,330 at the time that we were making history 805 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:15,400 what we didn't know was what kind of 806 00:36:20,130 --> 00:36:17,650 history was gonna be we weren't sure if 807 00:36:23,250 --> 00:36:20,140 it was if it was there be as it turned 808 00:36:26,010 --> 00:36:23,260 out to be a moment of great triumph or 809 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:26,020 if it was gonna be the greatest Fiasco 810 00:36:31,500 --> 00:36:28,690 of all time killed people spent billions 811 00:36:33,030 --> 00:36:31,510 of dollars and still not get there so we 812 00:36:34,830 --> 00:36:33,040 knew we were making history one way or